Josh Holland | The Shocking Truth About Shoes, Balance & Brain Health

Who is Josh Holland?

Joshua "Josh" Holland is a dedicated biohacker, state of the art fitness trainer, holistic health coach and sports professional, he champions the philosophy of “awareness through experience,” and has subsequently spent years consulting with elite professionals with the goal of building a vast well in which to draw from when evoking alignment of body, mind and spirit for his clients.
Josh is the co-founder of several fitness and health entities, as well as a Global Ambassador for a number of companies, including Technogym. Currently, he leads an elite team of trainers and health coaches at his gym, SystimFit in Flatiron, New York City.
What did Josh and Dr. Scott discuss?

00:00 Opening Banter
00:27 Welcome to the Smarter Not Harder Podcast
02:10 Why Foot Health Matters
04:15 Lessons from The Foot Collective
06:00 Tools, Play & Curiosity
07:20 Rethinking Conferences & Movement
09:00 The Overlooked Foundation of Biohacking
12:00 Proprioception, Toe Strength & Longevity
18:10 Shoes vs Nature & Foot Strength
22:15 Study: 57% Stronger Feet in 6 Months
25:00 The Power of Play & Community
28:00 Grounding & Teaching Outdoors
31:00 Activating Audiences at Conferences
33:30 Upcoming Symposium in Boulder
36:30 Workshops & Closing
Full Transcript:

[00:00:00] Josh Holland: We are gonna be doing. People are like, what does he mean doing? Um, vivo barefoot shows up as a vendor, as an ex- Exhibitioner, whatever. 

[00:00:08] Exhibitor. Exhibitor. There you go. Yeah. Exhibitioner is a little bit different. That's a little different. Little foot fetish. Anyone? Uh.

[00:00:27] Dr. Scott Sherr: Welcome back to the Smarter Not Harder Podcast, your home for one cent solutions to $64,000 questions. I'm your host again today. My name is Dr. Scott Sherr, and it's a pleasure to be back with all of you. So today's podcast was a fun one. It was a repeat guest. This is Josh Holland. This is a quick podcast to talk about some of the new things that he's working on and also.

[00:00:45] That he's gonna be at our Health Optimization Medicine and Practice Symposium happening October 17th and 18th in Boulder, Colorado. Josh is coming in to talk all about foot health, foot optimization and understanding shoes, not [00:01:00] only shoes, but also positioning proprioception, nervous system regulation, using your feet, which I'm super excited about.

[00:01:05] So here's a quick bio on Josh. For those that don't know him, Josh is a dedicated biohacker state-of-the-art fitness trainer, holistic health coach, and sports professional. He champions the philosophy of awareness through experience and has subsequently spent years consulting with the elite professionals with the goal of building a vast well in which to draw from which evoking alignment of body, mind, and spirit for his clients.

[00:01:25] And there's always so much more to say about Josh because he's just the consummate student and also the consummate teacher. He's a fantastic teacher and he's been really into foot health, foot optimization. He's been working with a number of different companies like Vivo Barefoot, the Foot Collective, and he's been doing lots of activations all over the world on foot health.

[00:01:43] And so in this podcast, that's what we talk about. We talk about the feet, we talk about toe strength, foot strength, proprioception. I didn't know that 70% of your proprioception is actually in your feet, which makes a lot of sense, but if you want. Longevity and health span, you need to care about your feet as well.

[00:01:58] In addition, we talk about him [00:02:00] speaking at the Health Optimization Medicine and Practice Symposium again happening October 17th and 18th in Boulder. You can check it out@homehope.org. Josh is gonna be doing some activations. He's gonna bring in some free shoes as well, which we're gonna talk about soon in some promos, which I'm excited about, and he's gonna get us up and moving and show us how to do it well.

[00:02:16] So without further ado, check out this short podcast and this fun, exciting, and enthusiastic. As always, Josh Holland. Alrighty, Josh. Good to see you, man. 

[00:02:24] Josh Holland: Likewise. Good to see you as always. I know this is virtual, but it's still good to see you nonetheless. 

[00:02:30] Dr. Scott Sherr: Always, always good to see you. It's hard to see you in person, Josh, you're everywhere and nowhere all at the same time.

[00:02:35] I feel like. So, and, and I heard you've been on a mission lately and being, being like educating yourself, educating others. Tell me what's been going on with you and let's, let's rock into it. 

[00:02:45] Josh Holland: Yeah. It's, first of all, people who know me know that I am a constantly curious learner. I, I love to just add to my level of experience and, you know, I'm not sure who, who said the quote, but basically.

[00:02:59] If [00:03:00] you find yourself to be the smartest person in the room, choose a different room. Hundred percent. And that's, that's very much how I am. You know, so I just love to learn. But then consequently, I also love to share. So it's, it's one of those things where I found myself a few months ago, I think it was like back in January, I saw that the foot collective.

[00:03:18] Well, they always offer retreats and certification courses throughout the, throughout the year. And I saw that they were gonna be doing one in Austin and it just so happened to perfectly fall between, um, or right around the time that we, we were to be doing, we as InVivo barefoot, we were gonna be doing the biohacking conference.

[00:03:38] And when I. We are gonna be doing. People are like, what does he mean doing? Um, vivo, barefoot shows up as a vendor, as an ex Exhibitioner, whatever. 

[00:03:47] Exhibitor. Exhibitor. There you go. Yeah. Exhibitioner is a little bit different. That's a little different. Little foot fetish. Anyone? Uh, yeah. Love it. Okay, perfect.

[00:03:56] Yeah. So Vivo Barefoot had a booth and the, [00:04:00] the Foot Collective certification course was the weekend before, so it was perfect. And before we started recording today, I was telling you that. I had just gotten back and my mind was blown. I had prepared this, this lengthy presentation for the Biohacking conference.

[00:04:15] I was gonna be, you know, I was set to speak at it. Sure. Talk about foot health and longevity. And when I went through this course with the guys at The Foot Collective, I realized just how much I don't know, and I ended up deciding to kind of completely change the presentation like this. Right. Wow. Mm-hmm.

[00:04:33] Which, if you know. If you know the amount of things that I know and I've experienced throughout all this stuff, like when it comes to feet and and fitness training and health optimization, it's pretty easy to make a switch like that on the, on the dime, but. It was, it was all about like how to explore the feet beyond just what I already have been doing.

[00:04:53] And, and so I think this is the perfect opportunity to kind of mention that just because we, [00:05:00] people like us are into barefoot shoes and a barefoot lifestyle and understanding the health from the ground up. Sometimes we have to understand that we're just starting at the ground level with this, with this, right.

[00:05:11] Just getting the right shoes with the. Proper width at the toes and the mm-hmm. The, the thinness and the, the flexibility of it. That just means you're set up to be able to maximize your foot health. But then if you do some of the things that I've been doing over the weekend and, and all through the week, it's like.

[00:05:30] Wait a minute. I have all these tools in my place that I haven't even been using properly. You know, it's like, like for instance, there's this device called the Soulmate and I just posted a video of it today and, um, I've had that for probably over a year, but it wasn't until I did the course that I realized.

[00:05:46] Oh, that's more than just a thing you balance on. That's a thing that you can incorporate play and so on and so forth. So I encourage people to be as curious as possible and let go of the ego, right? [00:06:00] Like, because some of these things you don't even need tools for, which we'll probably talk about when we do the symposium, is like, how can we do some of these things on the floor, on the ground with no tools?

[00:06:11] Right. Take off your shoes, take off your socks, importantly, right? Mm-hmm. And yeah, I'm, I'm happy to share this with the people at the symposium. I think it's gonna be exciting. 

[00:06:20] Dr. Scott Sherr: Yeah, man, I'm so excited to have you as a speaker, October 17th and 18th, and also as a participant in the sense of creating an ecosystem where people are gonna learn about foot health, about movement.

[00:06:32] I mean, you've been doing this for such a long time in so many different ways, and what I love about you is, what you said earlier, is that you're. Always learning. And not only are you learning that you're sharing, and one of the big things that we care about, of course, is that when people are at these kinds of conferences, oftentimes, or maybe the biohacking conference was a little bit different and better.

[00:06:51] Most of the time you're sitting in a chair, you're listening to speakers, and even if the information is fantastic, it's still very difficult to maintain [00:07:00] concentration, to maintain any sense of feeling healthy as well, because you're kind of, you know, under lights, you're not moving, um, you're in.

[00:07:08] Uncomfortable chair. Um, what are some of the things you've been learning overall, um, in the sense like in the last couple weeks that have really, it sounds like, sort of changed your, your worldview? You may mentioned something called a soulmate and things like from the ground up and not just, you know, a nice pair of shoes, which, you know, I've been blessed to have because of your recommendation and I love them and, um, I've like.

[00:07:28] So many, many members of my family now, um, even my father who's on his feet for 15 hours a day, he loves them. And so what else have you learned or what do you think is like some really great things for people to, to learn today about, like what they can do more, to understand more of this, this physiology, this, this sort of biomechanical aspect of things.

[00:07:49] Josh Holland: Well, this is a perfect segue into what I, what I wanted to discuss anyway. And that is, so this was the second year that I did the biohacking conference in the same capacity with Vivo, barefoot, [00:08:00] having a booth, being a vendor, also, uh, doing a presentation in the breakout room. And so what I learned last year at the Biohacking conference in Dallas, I was.

[00:08:13] I guess fortunate or maybe unfortunate enough to notice that amongst all of the biohackers and, and you, you know, what the biohacking world is like, right? It's like totally. It's, there's a lot of great things happening. There's a lot of good stuff happening, but a lot of it is centered around how to maximize longevity, how to, uh, you know, boost cognitive ability, all the different supplements and the tools and this and that.

[00:08:39] However. I didn't see anyone talking about foot health, and that's such a huge component to longevity. In fact, it you can have all of the fancy tools and the telomere lengthening things and do all these things, but like if you sustain a fall, you know, at, at age of 65 or higher, then it doesn't matter how good your brain is.

[00:08:59] Right? And [00:09:00] so one of the, the, the key preventative factors for falls at an older age is. Toe stability and toe strength, foot strength. And so that should turn the light bulb on. And it actually did for me last year at the biohacking conference enough to where I decided to publish an article that was called The Overlooked Foundation.

[00:09:20] And it was, it was kind of challenging the biohacking community to say, Hey, let's also wake up to the fact that we're not even talking about our feet. It's like people think just because conventional footwear out there is supporting this, um, this sort of, uh. And this idea of comfort always having the shoe that is quote unquote supportive.

[00:09:40] Having the shoe that has a thick sole because it feels comfortable doesn't necessarily mean it's helping us. And, and what we say, and I know it's kind of cheesy and probably been mentioned too many times, but maybe this audience hasn't heard it. Instead of trying to think about the best technology for a shoe to help us stabilize at the ankle and help us run faster [00:10:00] performances and things like that, we should maybe look at the notion of the best technology to go in a shoe is the human foot, right?

[00:10:07] And so let's think less about the technology. Outside this exogenous technology, and let's think about this endogenous, this capability that we already have within us. We just need to wake it up. And so one of the things I would challenge people who are listening to this and thinking about coming to, uh, the, the symposium and maybe those who can't make it, one of the things that I am starting to incorporate more, I used to do this a little bit, but I got away from it.

[00:10:33] It happens. We're human, but it's this idea of sitting on the floor, floor sitting. 

[00:10:38] Dr. Scott Sherr: Hmm. 

[00:10:38] Josh Holland: And, and it was interesting because this year I came in guns a blazing thinking I'm gonna, I'm gonna activate the biohacking community and get them to listen to me, like you said, but there's no amount of, of, uh, blue canine or, or, you know, cognitive support that's gonna keep them engaged for a period of time.

[00:10:55] So what I did was I said, okay, let's offer floor [00:11:00] seating for those and then chairs kind of on the outside. And what do you think happened? Not one person set. Yeah. Not one person set on the floor. 

[00:11:08] Dr. Scott Sherr: Yeah. 

[00:11:09] Josh Holland: And so it's like, okay, um, you know, people have the, the standing desk. That's cool, that's good. But the body is designed to move.

[00:11:17] And so what I would do is like to challenge everyone, anyone watching or listening this, try to get creative in different positions that you can sit in on the floor. And when you find yourself. Feeling that like a certain position is uncomfortable, all that's gonna do is force you to move into a different position because we can.

[00:11:37] Obviously we can sit on a chair at a 90 degree angle at the hips and allow our muscles to, to atrophy and get weak, and then cause all these other issues and then think we need all the shoes and the personal trainers and the physical therapist to help us, or we can forget about trying to, to work on all these hip things to.

[00:11:55] Unlock it and then just start sitting more on the floor, because [00:12:00] every time you get uncomfortable, you have to move into a different position. You start to see your hips open up a little bit more, and you have an opportunity to be closer to the ground. Closer to your feet so you can make love with your feet again.

[00:12:12] Dr. Scott Sherr: I see where you're going with this. Yes. You're gonna have, you're gonna have your, uh, OnlyFans channel, make Love to Your Feet. Again, there probably already is a couple fetish shows. 

[00:12:20] Josh Holland: Yes, yes. I, if, if you're listening to this, reach out to me. 

[00:12:24] Dr. Scott Sherr: So with, with that though, Josh, what are the best ways to sit on the ground?

[00:12:29] Are there optimal ways to do this or is it just. Knowing that if you're gonna be on the ground, you're going to move more, because the nature of move of being on the ground is that you have to move more overall. 

[00:12:39] Josh Holland: This is a great question, and it's the, the response is about as broad as you might imagine, the best way for you to sit on the ground is the best way for you to sit on the ground, period.

[00:12:50] Right? And so that means, I know there's gonna be a lot of people who, when they first do it, they're gonna want to sit on the ground by. Putting their hand down and having to help [00:13:00] themselves get down. And the same to get up. And as we know, another marker for longevity is the ability to get up and off, like down to the ground and up from the ground without using your hands.

[00:13:10] There's many ways to do that, but I say people come to me 'cause they know I'm a coach and they say, okay, well what's the best way to do that? And I go, well, just the best way that you can do that. And then if you wanna add variety to it, then add variety to it. And speaking on this topic, I brought this up during the chat at this recent biohacking conference, and I, I provided an example of what I do with clients Sometimes what I'll do to try to get their head out of always being coached on how to do X, Y, and Z, I'll say, Hey, we're gonna spend the next five minutes.

[00:13:42] Moving. Okay. Ready? I'll set my timer. And I do this on purpose, right? Mm-hmm. I'll set the timer and I'll go, okay. I just want you to move for the next five minutes. Ready? 3, 2, 1. And never once does a person just start moving unless they've done it with me before, because they're always looking for, well, what [00:14:00] kind of movement?

[00:14:00] And I say, just move. Right? If that looks like dance to you, then dance. If that looks like jumping jacks or running in place, I'm not looking for you to do a certain exercise. I'm not looking for, I just want you to move. I want to see how much capacity you have in your brain, because as we know, there's all these sensors on the bottom of the feet and throughout the body that connect to the brain and back.

[00:14:20] Mm-hmm. And so. We, we've seen studies in which the more you can utilize your feet properly, the, the more brain activation you have. And so that's almost like an a very natural cognitive boost. So of course we can add in the supplements, but why not add in the supplements and the movement? Let's maximize it.

[00:14:40] Dr. Scott Sherr: Right. Yeah. Yeah. It's funny you mentioned it because, um, my daughter just last night was like, dad, can you give me a foot massage? And she's never really asked one for one before. I mean, maybe one at a time, like, maybe about a couple weeks ago. She's like, wow, that was amazing. And, and she's like, dad, when you do it, I feel so much better.

[00:14:56] Like, my body feels like, my mind feels clearer, my mind is lighter. [00:15:00] And I was like, Hmm, that's very interesting. I'm gonna be talking to Josh today and we'll have to talk about, yeah. So you're seeing this right? All, all, all the time. I'd imagine. That's incredible. How old is she? She's 12. And so she, when she was younger, when she was about.

[00:15:14] Eight or nine. She had an issue with her heel where she was growing too fast and some of the bones were causing some issues and we would massage them at at night and we'd do some stretching and, and some, like with her achill, it was achilles tendon. Was, was, was the, was the challenge. And, but she just did some stretching and she did great.

[00:15:30] And you know, now for whatever reason, I, I, I just did it like randomly a couple weeks ago, and now she's like, every night she's like, dad, can I get a foot massage? That's amazing. Yeah. And it's great, right? When I was a kid, my dad also, he's a chiropractor in New York, and after, after all my soccer games, if I, you know, if I hurt my legs or something like that, he'd always do foot massages.

[00:15:48] I remember just like the, the relief of it, right? Just the relief of, of getting that pressure. And we know about reflex re reflexology for the feet already, and that's a well described thing. 

[00:15:58] Josh Holland: Yeah, for sure. And what I [00:16:00] love about that is, is when you can get your kids to ask you to do something for their health, whether they see it as such or not, it's incredible.

[00:16:09] It's like, it, it's almost like there's no placebo there. I mean, obviously there might be a little bit, but it, it's one of those things where. We know that kids are always trying to do the cool thing, but to have dad come in and do a foot massage is an incredible connection. So, right. It's one of those connections where you guys get a chance to bond and then, you know, not to make this weird, 'cause we're talking about your daughter, but like also like partners, right?

[00:16:35] Like your partner. Sure. This is a really interesting way to connect on a much deeper level. You know, it's like my ex-partner and I, you know, before we had kids and while we were together, it was, it was a situation in which we would do that for each other. Hmm. And. I, I mean, whether it was because our feet were hurting from being barefoot most of the day, or if it was just another way to connect, you know, sometimes that [00:17:00] I, I know there's couples out there listening that maybe, maybe haven't been intimate for a long time.

[00:17:05] Well start with. With taking care of each other's feet. Right. Don't let it be weird. And, and you know what's interesting to me is that there's a lot of people who are so insecure about their own feet that they're never going to be secure enough to be able to work with someone else's feet. And so I wanna get people interested in just looking at your feet and appreciating what has been carrying you through life, literally and figuratively.

[00:17:29] And then I would say there, there's this term called foot mojo. And you know how like if you're holding hands with, with a partner or even with yourself, you clasp your fingers together? Sure. This is like a natural toe spacer, so you put your fingers through your toes. It's uncomfortable at first, but it's one of those challenges where as you do it more, you start to see it's a little bit easier.

[00:17:49] And then we could start talking about. Getting toe socks. People think it's weird, but it's like, is it weird? If you're able to gain better performance, maybe better connection with yourself. [00:18:00] This is self-confidence through our feet. Anyway. Yeah, yeah. 

[00:18:02] Dr. Scott Sherr: No, this is great. So tell me a little bit about this, because what is the, what are the benefits of becoming more sensitive to the proprioception of your toes and like why is toe strength so important overall?

[00:18:13] Josh Holland: So there, speaking of proprioception. A lot of people listening to this podcast probably already know, but it's still worth mentioning. Proprioception is basically just this idea of knowing where we are in space, right? And the, the proprioceptions in the bottom of the feet represent about 70% of our proprioceptive system, right?

[00:18:30] So we have the, you know, the auditory system and we have the visual system, but our feet is about 70% of that. That is huge. And so if you think about that, it's like, well. You know, we've, we've got all these tools where we can balance on like a, a BOSU ball, or we can balance on a Slack block. These are really great tools, but the problem there is that it's still flat, right?

[00:18:54] So if you're using the, the bottom side of a bosu or, or a Slack block or something like that, it's great for balance, for sure. [00:19:00] It doesn't really represent what's in nature, so to speak, because in nature there's all these undulating surfaces. It's a variety of challenges for our feet. And so the, the idea here is just to open up the feel like we wanna open up the sensory experience because we have sensory receptors for the sensory feedback, right?

[00:19:21] So it's this feedback loop that can occur and that just keeps your brain sharp, keeps you, keeps you cognitive, cognitive. Cognitively superior. And then talking about the toe strength. You know, it's like a common example that I start to use now. I learned over the week because I'm always looking for analogies to help drive home a thought.

[00:19:41] And so people out there, if you've ever tried to do a handstand. Right. Um, we know that doing handstands are very tough, but I draw a connection directly between the hand and the foot. Very similar, right? The, the fingers are the toes, right? Then the, the wrist is the ankle and so on and so forth, up the body.

[00:19:59] [00:20:00] Well, when we try to do a handstand, no one ever will try to do a handstand with their hands collapsed like this. However. If you understand that you need to widen your, your base of support on doing a handstand, it's the same with the feet. So the more we can splay our toes, the better balance we have, period.

[00:20:20] But every bit of layer that you put beneath your foot and the, the earth, that slows down that connection to the brain and back. Yeah. And so. One of the common examples I give there is, if you've ever really thought about it, most of us have never, almost all of us have never rolled our ankle, truly rolled our ankle when we were barefoot, right?

[00:20:42] And so that, that's worth like thinking about quite seriously because. Usually we have the time and the, the, the synaptic firing speed is so fast because you're so close to the ground that you have a chance to, to alter your movement so that you don't hurt yourself. 'cause the body doesn't wanna [00:21:00] hurt itself.

[00:21:00] Right? But then every time we add stack height to a shoe. And we constrict the foot from being able to wiggle those toes to widen the base of support, well now you have a greater capacity to roll it over and fully manifest an injury. And then depending on where you are in life, maybe the difference between not being able to work, not being able to do your sport, not being able to have fun, and then that leads to depression and all these other things.

[00:21:24] So it's like, yeah, you can go in and try to get the ankle support and that's for a period of time. Like I, I'm not gonna sit here and say that we don't ever need those things. Sure. But I would suggest that we should just strengthen our feet. And I don't know if we've talked about this before, but there was a study that that was done through Vivo Barefoot, in which a group of students were asked to wear vivo barefoot shoes for a period of, of six months.

[00:21:51] And all they were, were asked to do was to just wear the shoes for 80% of the time. Right. And wait, I think [00:22:00] we, I think I may have lost you for a second. Yeah. You 

[00:22:01] Dr. Scott Sherr: go back and go, are you back? And start with the study. Yeah, 

[00:22:04] Josh Holland: I gotcha. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So, so there was a study that, that we did with Vivo Barefoot, and they, they got together a group of students and they measured their foot strength before the study.

[00:22:16] And then they were asked to only wear the shoes 80% of the time. Just walking around living life. No, no, like. Cues on, on what to do for foot strength or anything like that. And then at the end of the study, six months later, they measured their foot strength again. And the average gain in foot strength was 57.4% increase in foot strength.

[00:22:38] Right. And there's, there's different ways to measure that, but. Some people look at that and go, wow, that's pretty cool. And think that that's it. But the way I think, and I'm sure you and the rest of the people listening to this is like, well, what would happen if they did the same thing? But they also added foot exercises, toe yoga, um, doing other things to work on their balance.

[00:22:58] How much more of an increase [00:23:00] in foot strength would they have gained? Therefore, improving performance, improving quality of life, because if you feel stable throughout life. You're going to be more confident. You might take a risk on playing tennis or going to do something that you probably wouldn't have done otherwise.

[00:23:14] And then this increases quality of life. And this is what I call lifespan and health span, right? This is true health span because lifespan is one, one side of it, but the health span and the the, the quality of life is what I'm trying to look for. 

[00:23:28] Dr. Scott Sherr: Yeah, and that's beautifully said, man. 'cause I think. You're right in the biohacking space that so many people are looking for the next tool, the next supplement, the next technology that's really going to make them feel better, whether it's for a short time or maybe for a long time.

[00:23:45] And there obviously is more of a, an interest, at least initially in biohacking, it was more about. Short-term response that rather than long-term benefit. Uh, so you had things like, you know, the raam and, and nootropics and, and some of those can be great short term, but may not be great for your brain [00:24:00] long-term.

[00:24:00] There. There is more of an interest now in longevity, but I do agree that health span's a big deal and probably the bigger deal. Out of all of it. And I think what you said there earlier with, you know, a fall when you're 65 years old, uh, doesn't matter how many nootropics that you've taken, if you're sarcopenic or if you're, and if your strength is really poor in your proximal muscles because you sit all the time, you're gonna be in trouble.

[00:24:25] Um, so I think it's really great that you're bringing more interest and awareness to all this. 

[00:24:29] Josh Holland: Thank you and, and I can add a little bit more to that because I think this is also important too. So we realize that life is tough, right? Like life can be tough for all of us, and I think we have the choice to make it less difficult.

[00:24:45] Not to say that. What I'm gonna suggest for people is going to, you know, fix their bills or pay for their mortgage or whatever. Sure. Yeah. However, speaking of adding more to a person's life, like I want to introduce this idea of play [00:25:00] and that was one of the things that we, we really explored with the Foot Collective Group and.

[00:25:04] You know, I can't remember the last time I played hacky sack, but it was certainly probably around high school and I mean, which was a long time ago. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I'm about to, I'm about to be 44 in less than in about a week. A little over a week. 

[00:25:18] Dr. Scott Sherr: Okay. I wrote there, man. Yeah. 

[00:25:19] Josh Holland: Thank you. And you know, it's like.

[00:25:22] To be asked to pick up a hacky sack with your toes. Yeah. And not use your hands means one, you are widening your feet, you're getting dexterity throughout your toes. And while this might not represent anything that's happening in nature per se, it does give you a different ability and changes your focus into stop thinking about, okay, I have to get this set of shoes for this type of workout.

[00:25:48] I need to do this weight. 'cause none of that really is representative in nature either. You know, like the perfect barbell doesn't really exist in nature necessarily. Sure, 

[00:25:57] Dr. Scott Sherr: sure. 

[00:25:57] Josh Holland: Tea tree branches do. Sure. But like, you're [00:26:00] not lifting it up over and over and over. And I, I do realize that there's a, there's a benefit to doing that, but.

[00:26:05] Taking, like what I saw over the weekend at this course with the Foot Collective was there were grown ass people like myself and you and everyone else who were just playing, and there wasn't a single person that was like grunting and, and like, and. Pissed off and angry. Everyone was laughing and having an amazing time.

[00:26:25] And I'm talking like laughing, like gut laughing. Right. And it was because we were playing these games that like, like I had never tried to play hacky sack without shoes on. I now realize playing hacky sack with shoes on is like a cheat code. So if you've ever tried to play hacky sack with your shoes off, you realize how difficult that is.

[00:26:44] Yeah. Because you have to precisely place that hacky sack right on the part of the foot you want it to be, or the knee or the body. Right. Um, and then like balancing and playing tug of war. These are some of the things that I've been recently posting on my, on my Instagram and my social media, [00:27:00] so people feel free to go and check that out because it's like, it's just nothing but joy.

[00:27:04] Pure joy. So it's like you can think about it as a workout or you can think about it as like having fun with your community and or your family. 

[00:27:13] Dr. Scott Sherr: Yeah. The other thing about that that's so important, obviously the movement piece is so important, but the community piece is really, really important too. And the laughing piece.

[00:27:22] The laughing and smiling and screwing up and not having to be perfect at something because you know so many of us. Unfortunately feel like we have to be a very specific mold. We have to do things very specific ways, and this is how we get very strict and more stringent on what we do over time. Right? So the, I think the ability to, to play.

[00:27:42] And having kids of course, is helpful or having these kinds of collectives is helpful because then you can actually laugh and get more parasympathetic and relax and, and get all those happy hormones going on too. 

[00:27:52] Josh Holland: Yeah. When, when we were just recently at the outside festival and summit in Denver, just literally a couple days ago, [00:28:00] it was so cool because Vivo barefoot yet again had another booth, but this is all outside literally.

[00:28:06] And um. And so there's all this beautiful grass and nature around, right? And you know, I like to talk about grounding and earthing and all those things. And, and of course in the biohacking world, it's like, we got the tools to do that indoors. Great, cool. But now we have this opportunity to like be in the grass.

[00:28:23] And so I had the luxury of being able to teach a class for about 45 minutes to a group of people. Now, the difference between the biohacking conference and the outside festival was that. When I asked for floor seating, which was just literally on the grass, in the dirt mm-hmm. Loads of people did it. And so I, you know, I can share some videos of that because I'm now teaching and I, I teach a lot, but lately, over the last few years it's been one-on-one virtually, or maybe, you know, one with a, with a couple of people.

[00:28:54] But this was a great opportunity to show. What it looks like to have a group of people, I [00:29:00] forget how many we had, but we had a lot of people literally doing jumping jacks, running in place, laughing, smiling, and these are people I don't know. Sure. I've never met them before. Sure. They didn't know each other, you know, a lot of them didn't know each other, but we had little kids there.

[00:29:12] We had older people there. We had people who were very capable. And what was cool about it is everyone had their shoes and socks off. So they were getting this grounding effect, which whether you believe in that or not, there's, there's, there's processes that are occurring for the amount of time that you're there, but then you're also learning that it's okay to stumble when you're trying to balance on one foot, or it's okay if you can't get some of these, um, these, uh, brain challenges that I like to do that, that, that pair with the body movements.

[00:29:39] And so I'm getting people literally on their hands and knees crawling like. Kids going through the movement milestone, learning how to, how to reset everything, and then they leave. And so many people came up to me and was just so happy. Like, thank you for giving us the opportunity to laugh and play and smile, you know?

[00:29:57] It's powerful. 

[00:29:58] Dr. Scott Sherr: It's, it's a beautiful thing, [00:30:00] man. It's a beautiful thing to give people an experience that it's very. Much ancestral, right? In the sense of this is where we came from, we came from the dirt, and we used to play in the dirt and be in the grass. And whether there's, you know, there are some pretty good studies on grounding overall, but in general, um, it just feels better to be outside and get on the grass.

[00:30:20] And most of us can, you know, relate to that. And you see like a little kid, you, you take off all their clothes and they start and like you put them on the grass and they just start moving, for example. Yeah. Yeah. As opposed to like being in someplace in the house. They may not go anywhere, but like you take them outside and it's like a different.

[00:30:33] Being overall. Yeah. It's super cool. Yeah. And, and just watching your kids play too, right? You've, I'm sure you've spoken, spoken about that as well is how they move and how natural it is. And, and like it's always great to, you know, have little kids to be able to roll around on the ground and, and do that.

[00:30:46] But at the biohacking conference, did they ever get up on, get down on the floor with you? Did you have to get, encourage everybody to get down with there with you? 

[00:30:52] Josh Holland: They, they didn't do it. Interesting. They just, they wouldn't do it. I mean, I was able to imagine this. I was able to get everyone to stand [00:31:00] up and take their shoes and socks off that That's a good start, right?

[00:31:03] Yeah, yeah, yeah. But, but here's how I'm, here's how I am. Right? I'm a very observant person. I think you know that about me. And I love, it's like I have this X-ray vision when I just watch people and. So I'm monitoring this entire group that was in this room, and I literally just asked everyone, okay, here's what we're gonna do.

[00:31:22] We're gonna take a pause from this quote unquote lecture, this presentation, and I want to get everyone active. So if you would for me, please take off your shoes and socks and then stand up. And when I did that, I watched basically every single person use their hands to get up from a chair. Right. 

[00:31:39] Dr. Scott Sherr: Hmm.

[00:31:39] Josh Holland: With no armrest either. Got it. So then what I did was I pointed that out. Now that's waking this, the brain up, and I know we've talked about this before, but that, that, um, conscious or unconscious competence feedback loop. 

[00:31:53] Dr. Scott Sherr: Sure. That was 

[00:31:53] Josh Holland: one of those moments that occurred right then and there. I said, okay, no judgments here, everyone, but I saw that the bulk of [00:32:00] you used your hands to get up.

[00:32:01] Why is that? Right. If anyone literally needs to use it, please continue to do so. But now I'd like for you to sit down without using your hands, and then stand back up without using your hands because you're on a, you're on a chair. Mm-hmm. Now, if you're coming up from the ground, I, I get it. But you're in a chair, so use your body because you've been sitting here for the last however many minutes I've been doing this presentation.

[00:32:22] It's time to move. And so that woke everyone up a little bit, right? No one's yawning. And now I get them bouncing and, and, and balancing and closing their eyes and feeling each feeling the sway that's happening and, and closing your eyes and rolling your head around. And these are some of the things we did at the at the Foot Collective certification.

[00:32:41] Nice. And I was like, oh, this is perfect. You know, I can get people doing it right there in their spot. They're not gonna hit anybody unless someone tries, almost falls over, which. Did kind of happen, but they didn't fall all the way over. Okay. But then it just awakened more of a res response, more of a connection to what I was even doing there.

[00:32:58] And so [00:33:00] now the questions become, oh wow, I realize that I have a lot more work to do. So I said, listen, we don't have the time right now because if presentation's almost over, however, come to the booth and let's talk. And I can't tell you how many people literally did that. And that was great. Nice. That was a really good, because that, that means it was impactful.

[00:33:17] Dr. Scott Sherr: Totally, and I'm so excited for you to be at the symposium October 17th and 18th again in, in Boulder to be able to have our group experience this too. Um, not only when we're doing lectures, because we'll have lectures for a day and a half, and we'll have some great speakers, including yourself and Tom DeLauer also be there.

[00:33:36] Um, mm-hmm. A bunch of local practitioners here, Jill Carnahan, Christine Marin, uh, myself, Dr. Ted Boomer, the whole Home Hope faculty and. But bringing this in is just exactly what we want, right? Which is allowing people the capacity to know that there's so much going on with their feet and proprioception and feet strength that is so much so important for health span and longevity.

[00:33:59] It's so cool, ma'am. [00:34:00] 

[00:34:00] Josh Holland: Well said. And, and also, I mean, for people who don't know me clearly, I'm very animated. I'm very excited and passionate about what I do. Love it. I love it. Yeah. I plan on bringing that and, and more and you know, I, I think if you are listening to this and watching this right now, you're gonna have a, a little bit of a leg up.

[00:34:19] On what we're gonna be doing. So don't tell anybody. Yeah. We will know who's watching. Right? We will know. 

[00:34:26] Dr. Scott Sherr: Yeah, we'll know. We'll watch you as you get outta your chair. Who was the person watching the video with Josh and I? Yeah. Um, well Josh, thanks so much for spending a little bit of time on this and giving us a quick tour to Force on Foot Health and there's so much more.

[00:34:39] This is just scratching the surface and uh, I can't wait to have you there with us, man. I really appreciate you coming out to Boulder with Vivo coming as well, and it's gonna be a fantastic time. 

[00:34:49] Josh Holland: Absolutely. My pleasure. Thank you as always for your energy and, and, and, and how, what you mean to the, the world of health and wellness.

[00:34:58] Like I literally consider you a [00:35:00] mentor and there's just, there's many times that I come to you, Scott, for like. Questions that is way beyond my scope of experience and, and I think it's important for people to understand that even we work together to, to help help each other out. Right? And so yeah, it's total collaboration.

[00:35:15] Dr. Scott Sherr: Yeah. And I'm doing the same with you right back at you man. Like your areas of expertise are so nuanced and the breadth of them is. I'm always shocked at when you tell me, if I say, Hey Josh, my daughter has knee pain, and you like, you send me 25 videos, you're like, tell me which one you wanna look at, and we can talk about it.

[00:35:33] Right? And so it's like there's so much more that you can do in a collaboration, collaborative events like this, collaborative. Experiences like the foot collective and others are just the way to go overall. And so if you're listening, find places to collaborate with people, uh, with colleagues, uh, with different specialties in different areas of expertise.

[00:35:51] But that's really how you're all gonna grow, right? 

[00:35:53] Josh Holland: Absolutely. And, and I'll just put a cap on this finally. Yeah. Um, on that topic for [00:36:00] anybody curious about finding more ways to work with me and to experience some of these things we're doing, be on the lookout because we are about to start rolling out a bunch of different workshops all over the country because Vivo barefoot is coming to the US in a major way, and there's a few key cities that we're gonna be focusing on.

[00:36:18] And the next rollout, the second wave of rollouts. Denver is gonna be on there. Cool. So it's close to where you are. Yeah. Cool. I gotta check it out for sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So stay tuned. 

[00:36:28] Dr. Scott Sherr: Cool man. Well, I'll check you. I'll check you soon in, in Boulder, but hopefully before. 

[00:36:32] Josh Holland: Yeah. Sounds good brother. Thank you so much.

[00:36:35] Dr. Scott Sherr: Alright, cheers Josh. This is such a fun podcast to record with Josh again. He's such a great wealth of information, a great teaSherr, and we talked about the Health Optimization Medicine and Practice Symposium, home hope.org. Check it out and get your ticket. October 17th and 18th in Boulder, Colorado. Come out, hang out with me where I live here.

[00:36:53] It's a fantastic time of year to be in Boulder and Josh is gonna be there. He's gonna speak, he's going to teach. You're going to learn. [00:37:00] It's going to be amazing. I hope you enjoyed this episode. If you. Did. Don't forget to like and subscribe below so you never miss an episode, and we'll check you out next time.